This is In Conversation from Apple News. I'm Shemit to profile health secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

And Kennedy agreed to sit down with him.

And almost literally the first thing he said to me when I walked in the room was my staff doesn't want me to talk to you.

They think this is a mistake. No one in your position

ever treats me fairly. And that was sort of the launching point. Michael first wrote about Kennedy

back in 2023 when he was at the Washington Post. Kennedy had taken issue with some parts of

that coverage. But the two stayed in touch. And for this new story for the Atlantic, Kennedy granted

Michael a remarkable level of access.

We met, I think, in total for something like seven hours, there are dozens of text messages on my phone, going back and forth about particular studies.

I traveled with him to Chicago.

I mean, it ended up becoming a rather elaborate reporting process.

Michael's piece is out now. It explores how Kennedy's

background, the privilege, the trauma, the years of addiction and recovery shaped the worldview

he brings to his role at HHS, and what that means for federal public health policy, including

rollbacks to the CDC's longstanding guidance on childhood immunization and

generally shifting American attitudes toward vaccines.

Michael told me that to understand the choices Kennedy is making today, you have to start

with the story of how he became who he is.

I think he's a very peculiar person, even among politicians who tend to be incredibly driven,

incredibly self-focused people.

He has a ferocity to him that is unusual.

And I've been doing this a lot of years now in Washington profiling people like this.

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