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Hi, I'm Jonathan Kapart and welcome to Cape Up.

Polly Harris is the executive director of the Hi, I'm Jonathan Kapart, and welcome to Cape Up.

Holly Harris is the executive director of the Justice Action Network.

She thinks the penal system is broken.

She believes mass incarceration doesn't make us safer.

And she's a Republican.

Listen to Holly if you want to know how

Conservatives are pushing for criminal justice reform right now.

Holly Harris. form right now.

Holly Harris, thank you very much for being on the podcast. Thanks for having me.

So a previous podcast guest, Carol Mason, she's the president of the John J College of Criminal Justice.

She said two things during her interview that I think speak to the core of criminal justice

reform.

One thing she said was, the problem we have now is we think prison is the only way to hold people

accountable when they break the law and the other thing she said we've got so

many people in our criminal justice system simply because they're poor and

what we ought to be doing is investing

upstream in keeping people out of the system and providing them with opportunities.

...