How Racism Costs Everyone

Fresh Air

NPR

Books, Society & Culture, Arts, Tv & Film

4.3 • 36.1K Ratings

🗓️ 19 January 2026

⏱️ 47 minutes

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Summary

Four years ago, Heather McGhee examined a question at the heart of American life: Why do so many Americans believe that progress for one group means loss for another? She traveled the country talking to factory workers, homeowners who'd lost everything, organizers, and scholars, trying to understand where that belief comes from, and what it costs us. This MLK Day, McGhee spoke with Tonya Mosley about this and how it comes on the heels of President Trump's comments that civil rights protections resulted in white people being “very badly treated.” McGhee’s book is ‘The Sum of Us.’

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Transcript

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0:00.0	This is our glass. On This American Life, one that we like is a good mystery. Sometimes about really big things, but most times, the little mysteries are the best. Our lost and found is currently filled with pants. I don't know what I've never seen this happen. This is true. This is true. Mysteries of every size each week, this American life, wherever you get your podcast.
0:24.3	This is Fresh Air.
0:25.3	I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest on this Martin Luther King Jr. Holiday is author and scholar Heather McGee.
0:31.9	Her book The Sum of Us, What Racism Costs Everyone and How We Can Prosper Together, came out in 2021, but it reads like it was written for this exact story. what racism costs everyone and how we can prosper together.
0:42.2	Came out in 2021, but it reads like it was written for this exact moment.
0:44.9	The thesis is deceptively simple.
0:47.8	Racism doesn't just hurt the people it targets.
0:51.8	It hollows out the lives of everyone, including white Americans.
0:55.8	McGee traces the history of this country, showing how it is often chosen to destroy public goods rather than share them. Just recently, President Trump told
1:02.1	the New York Times that civil rights protections resulted in white people being very badly treated,
1:08.3	that he calls it reverse discrimination. The administration is dismantling
1:12.8	diversity programs across government and urging white men to file federal discrimination complaints.
1:19.3	It is also removed the MLK holiday and Juneteenth from this year's fee-free days at National
1:25.3	Parks, a move many see as a direct assault on Dr. King's legacy.
1:30.9	In her book, McGee writes about research that shows many white Americans have come to believe
1:35.9	anti-white bias is now more prevalent than anti-black bias, despite evidence to the contrary.
1:42.8	She set out to understand where this belief comes from,
1:45.7	who profits from it, and what it costs all of us. She calls her book both a diagnosis and a way
1:52.4	out. Heather McGee is the former president of Demos, a progressive think tank focused on democracy,
1:58.8	the economy, and racial justice. She's drafted legislation
2:02.5	and testified before Congress on policy initiatives including debt-free college and voting rights
2:08.1	protections. She's a contributor to NBC's Meet the Press and delivered her 2019 TED Talk called
	...

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