Hey all, Joe here and you are listening to Under the Influence.

In my book, brands are influencers.

In a lot of ways, they were influencers before social media.

Influencers were influencers.

They often shape how we live, how we spend, and oftentimes even how we see

ourselves. And when I make a list of the top five brands that have influenced us in the past

decade, Patagonia is up on the top of my list. At the center of it all is Yvonne Schnaard. He was a former dirtbag, rock climber, and reluctant businessman who built Patagonia and turned it into a billion-dollar company.

And then he stunned the world by giving it all away.

My guest today is David Gellies. He's a longtime New York Times reporter who covers business and sustainability.

I read everything that David writes. He just gets it and he often feels like he is at the

forefront of everything that I want to know about climate change and sustainability and how we

can save our planet from catching on fire. In his latest book, Dirtbag billionaire, how Ivan Schnaard

built Patagonia, made a fortune, and gave it all away. David spent years reporting on

Schnaard and his family and gaining rare access to their inner circle. Today's conversation is

between David and my wonderful husband, Nick Astor, who is a sustainability

guru in his own right. This is Nick's passion. It is what he's been building businesses around

for the past 30 years. And I thought it would be really fun for him to be the one to interview David.

And even though this is a space primarily for women, we are also

very welcoming to very good men. And both of these guys are very good men. Today's episode is about

what happens when a brand becomes a movement, becomes an influencer, and how commerce, identity,

and activism actually collide every time we pull on a fleece.

David, thanks for joining me today.

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