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Well done. You've sorted through the embarrassment of riches that is the modern podcast landscape and found me Rob Briden on my podcast.

In this series of Briden and I talk to among others, Harry Hill, Ben Elton, Charlotte Church, Steve Cougan and Dame Harriet Walter.

And that's just a few. We tend to chat for about 45 minutes to an hour never longer. It's terrific conversation,

reminiscent, sweat appropriate and exchange of anecdotes. So do join me Rob Briden wherever you get your podcasts.

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For football fans of a certain age, the name Adam Pacman Jones conjures up a certain set of memories.

The NFL is suspending Adam Pacman Jones indefinitely. It comes just days after the Dallas Cowboys cornerback got into an alcohol-related scuffle with one of his bodyguards.

Jones was drafted six overall in 2005 and eventually became a pro-bola and all pro. But a wave of troubling off-the-field incidents trailed him during much of his career.

Jones tripped to this tripler, would unfold in a strikingly similar way. Death threats, gunshots and allegations that the man who arranged the shooting was Pacman Jones himself.

But what's less well known about Pacman Jones is the story of a loss that changed his life and ultimately his family life forever.

I just tried to let all the kids know like, hey, we love you, we're gonna work hard, but we also gonna enjoy the process.

Today, the Athletic Zach Kiefer tells us how Jones emerged as a devoted father and why his complicated life in some ways prepared him for this next stage of his life.

It's not a complete redemption story. This guy's not the best role model. I'm not saying he is, but I am saying this is a fascinating look at what he's doing for these young boys.

From Wondry, I'm Tiffany Oshinsky. It's Wednesday, July 12th, and this is The Lead.

Zach Kiefer, welcome back to The Lead. Thank you so much for being here.

Thanks for having me. This is fun. Yeah. And complicated this story, right?

It is for sure. It's a fascinating story you wrote about Pacman Jones. And it began actually with a scene from Jones's career when it looked like things were over.

So take us back to that day in early 2010 and tell us what happened.

When everyone thinks of Pacman Jones, they think of the strip clubs and the suspensions and all this talent being wasted too many interactions with police to count.

I think there was nine in the first three years. Wow.

Of his NFL career, nine times he was involved in some sort of fracas with cops. He was arrested five or six times, multiple shootings.

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