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Short Wave

How Nature Makes A Complex Brain

Short Wave

NPR

Daily News, Nature, Life Sciences, Astronomy, Science, News

4.76K Ratings

🗓️ 16 April 2025

⏱️ 14 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

A recent series of studies suggests that the brains of birds, reptiles and mammals all evolved independently — even though they share a common ancestor. That means evolution has found more than one way to make a complex brain, and human brains may not be quite as special as we think. To learn more about this, we talk to Fernando García-Moreno about this series of studies he co-authored that came out in Science in February.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

You have your job, but you also have a life, and you're not just one thing.

0:06.3

Neither is the Here and Now Anytime podcast.

0:09.2

Every weekday, we break down the biggest story of the day and something else, like a new

0:13.9

trend everyone's talking about.

0:15.7

It's Here and Now Anytime, a daily podcast from NPR and WBR.

0:24.3

Your Anytime, a daily podcast from NPR and WBR. You're listening to Shortwave from NPR.

0:29.9

What do birds, mammals, and reptiles all have in common?

0:34.1

We're amniotes, meaning we develop in a fluid-filled egg covered in a membrane.

0:39.3

That allows us to develop outside of water, unlike, say, a fish.

0:43.3

And that means we all have a common ancestor that branched out into other species

0:48.3

that researchers think probably lived over 300 million years ago.

0:52.3

And was probably similar to an amphibian, with some key differences.

0:59.0

But it already had some specializations, like a different skin, specialized lungs or brains, etc.

1:07.3

Fernando Garcia Moreno is an evolutionary and developmental neurobiologist.

1:12.4

He says for a long time there's been a debate about how amniote brains, like birds and mammals,

1:17.5

evolved and what makes them similar.

1:22.1

One brain structure called the pallium has been seen as a comparable structure in birds, mammals, and reptiles.

1:29.2

In every case, in all these species, the pallium is in charge of high task and high hierarchical

1:36.8

tasks such as cognitive processing, sensorial processing, motor control, also language, for instance, in the case of mammals and birds.

1:46.6

In mammals, the structure is near the top of the brain. It's sometimes called the cerebral cortex.

1:51.9

And it includes an area called the neocortex, plus some other key structures.

1:56.5

The hippocampus, which is in charge of memory, for instance, memory processing, or the amygdala,

...

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