I grew up in New England and I thought the way to handle things is repress for success.

Repress for success? I've not heard that before.

Well, it's a good reason. It's because you're very evolved.

No, it's because I'm British. It's just innate in us.

You don't even have to think about it.

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Obsessed Podcast and here is what I'm obsessed about.

In fact, you can see how obsessed I am by this new book from mistakes to meaning because of all the post-it notes in it.

It's a book about people who make mistakes. I've got my own mistake in there too.

But it's how you learn from them, how you move forward, and how you learn more

about yourself and what caused you to make the mistake in the first place. And I'm here with the

two authors, Michael Linton and Josh Steiner. Josh is an investor. He's now an author. Michael

ran the Sony studio when they went through the Sony hack. And that's

really the biggest mistake probably in the book. It remains, I think, the largest corporate hack

in American history. But let's get into it. I'm so pleased to talk to you about your book, from mistakes to meaning.

Looks like you actually read it.

I did read it.

That's the surprising part.

Yeah, I did not make the mistake of having you come in and not have read it.

But what's fascinating about the book is that these are real mistakes. They were

catastrophic mistakes to both of you. And this is not one of those books where it's like,

my biggest mistake led to the best thing that ever happened to me. These were catastrophic

mistakes. In your case, Michael, the biggest hack in American corporate history, the Sony hack.

...