Welcome back to the 10 Blocks podcast. This is Seth Barron, associate editor of City Journal.

Coming up on the show today, we have an interview with Elaine Berto.

Berto has served as an urban planar in cities across the globe, and his latest book,

Order Without Design, How Markets Shape Cities, is the culmination of a lifetime working in the field.

He was interviewed by our colleague Michael Hendricks, Director of State and Local Policy at the

Manhattan Institute, who will formally introduce our guest after the break.

You can head over to the City Journal website to check out new articles from the spring issue

and more. Last week, we released

essays by Andrew Claven on Christianity and Western civilization, and Shepard Barbash on

violence and institutional corruption in Mexico. The conversation between Michael Hendrix

and Alain Berto begins after this.

Welcome to the Ten Blocks podcast, the official podcast of City Journal.

I'm Michael Hendricks, the director of state and local policy at the Manhattan Institute.

Cities are like people, each with their own personalities, and our guest today has gotten to know cities on a very deep level.

Alon Berto serves as a senior research scholar at the NYU Marin Institute of Urban

Management, a program led by the Nobel Prize winner, Paul Romer. And over a career spanning five

decades and much of the globe, Brutot has worked as a resident urban planner in seven cities

and consulted with more than 50 cities ranging from

Bangkok to New York. He has also worked as a principal urban planner for the World Bank,

giving him an even deeper global understanding of how cities grow. In short, he's something like

the Indiana Jones of urban planners. And his new book, Order Without Design, is largely based on

his personal experience as an urban planner and what he has learned from urban economists on the job.

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