How Many Divisions Has the Pope?
Political Gabfest
Slate Podcasts
4.6 • 242 Ratings
🗓️ 16 April 2026
⏱️ 63 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
This week, Emily Bazelon, John Dickerson, and David Plotz discuss Trump's Hormuz blockade and his feud with the Pope, a new oral history chronicling stark shifts inside the Department of Homeland Security during Trump's second term, and how to unwind authoritarianism after the consequential electoral defeat of Hungary's Viktor Orbán with guest Anne Applebaum.
For this week’s Slate Plus bonus episode, Emily, John, and David discuss the joint resignation of Reps. Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales after accusations of sexual misconduct became public, why powerful men make such terrible choices, and whether we live in a world where shame still matters.
In the latest Gabfest Reads, David Plotz talks with journalist Gabriel Sherman about his new book Bonfire of the Murdochs: How the Epic Fight to Control the Last Great Media Dynasty Broke a Family—and the World. Sherman, who also wrote the bestselling biography of Fox News chief Roger Ailes, spent 15 years reporting on the Murdoch empire. In this book he turns his lens on the family itself — the rivalries, the wounds, and the secret Nevada courtroom battle that finally forced Rupert’s hand.
Email your chatters, questions, and comments to gabfest@slate.com. (Messages may be referenced by name unless the writer stipulates otherwise.)
Podcast production by Nina Porzucki
Research by Emily Ditto
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Find out more about David Plotz's monthly tours of Ft. DeRussy, the secret Civil War fort hidden in Rock Creek Park.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to the Slate Political Gab Fest. |
| 0:11.4 | April 16th, 2026, the How Many Divisions has the Pope edition? |
| 0:23.6 | I'm David Plotz of Citicast. I'm here in Washington, D.C., a sweltering Washington, D.C. I am joined by Emily Bazelon, New York Times Magazine, |
| 0:31.7 | Yale University Law School, and historian of the Trump administration, as we will discuss |
| 0:36.4 | later in the episode. Hello, Emily. |
| 0:38.2 | Hello. Hello. Hello to both of you. |
| 0:41.1 | From New York City. No, not from New York City. From Chicago where he is doing something. |
| 0:46.4 | John Dickerson, John has a wonderful new project. |
| 0:51.0 | So it's a collaboration with the estate of John's favorite musical performers, his his musical hero, John Prine. |
| 1:00.3 | So John Prine left a ton of music for songs that he never finished writing. |
| 1:04.8 | And so Prine and Arjohn had bonded when Prine was still alive about their shared love of 19th century |
| 1:12.0 | American presidents. |
| 1:13.1 | And the estate has asked John to write lyrics for a posthumous Prime album about American |
| 1:20.2 | presidents called Slip Through the White House Floor. |
| 1:23.4 | And it's really great. |
| 1:24.3 | And John shared it like verse one of his, of his first song. |
| 1:30.5 | Well, Ben sat quiet in the oval room with a beard like a winter field. |
| 1:34.8 | Grandpa's ghost in the corner chair and a tariff he wouldn't yield. |
| 1:39.3 | It's beautiful, John. |
| 1:40.6 | Who's that about? |
| 1:50.2 | I'm sorry. I'm just so um I'm so touched I'm so touched that you spend this brain energy or at least have flawed spend this brain |
| 1:55.0 | energy on it also it was it's the sad anniversary of, of John Prine's death in April 7th, |
... |
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