Hey there, this episode contains just the tiniest bit of salty language. Okay, here's the show.

There's a couple of things I need to tell you about my guest today. His name is Ellie Mistal.

The first thing you need to know is that he went to Harvard. Twice, actually. College and then law school. Second thing you need to know is that he went to Harvard, twice actually, college and then law school.

Second thing you need to know is that he's black.

That means he's deeply familiar with people questioning his credentials, how he's gotten to where he is now.

I have heard that since I set foot on campus in Cambridge from a certain kind of white people.

And that gets damn frustrating because I can standardize test you into the goddamn ground.

You don't want to come at me on a test, right?

Maybe, you know, you want to do some math.

Okay, maybe you do not want to come for me on an L-SAT or an SAT or a G-R-E.

I will embarrass you and your family.

And having to hear white people not get that my whole life has been frustrating.

These days, Ellie writes for the nation, edits the blog above the law.

And in the last week, he has been thinking a lot about college admissions, how we decide

who's in and who's out, how that conversation can so quickly devolve into a fight about

how deserving you are,

especially because his alma mater has been in court,

trying to preserve its very particular admissions process.

The Anti-affirmative Action Group, students for fair admissions, filed the lawsuit in 2014.

The trial sparked protests from both sides.

The plaintiff claimed Asian American applicants have the best academic records, but the lowest admission rates among any race,

because according to the group, Harvard raises the bar for Asian Americans and lowers it for

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