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From the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is channels of Peter Kafka. That is me. I'm also the chief correspondent at Business Insider.

And today we're talking about something we talk a lot about here, sports and TV and how that relationship is changing.

The short version is that sports depends on TV networks or huge vs. And TV depends on sports because sports is pretty much the last thing that people watch on TV

But that equilibrium is changing and that can have a big impact on sports fans TV networks and internet companies and sports teams and leagues

Here to guide us through all that is John Oran the longtime sports media reporter I used to read and talk to John when he was at the Sports Business Journal. Now he's at Puck, and I read and talk to him there. So let's talk to John right now. I'm happy with John Arand. I'm trying to remember. The last time we talked, were you at Puck? How long have you been at Puck?

I've been at Puck for a little more than a year now. I went over there in January of 2024. So I came on here once with Puck and I've had you on a couple of times since Puck. You have been on since Puck. All right. John Arand is one of the great sports business reporters. He's at puck.

I read him all the time.

I rely on him heavily to explain what's going on in sports media. And that's what I want to have him do now for all of us. So welcome back, John. Oh, it is a everybody says this, but it's a thrill. It is a thrill to be here. It's a thrill to have you. Last time I saw you was in person and we were at WrestleMania in Philadelphia.

And those are funny things to say out loud, but it was a totally fun experience.

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