NPR. This is the indicator from Planet Money. I'm Adrienne Ma. And I'm Whalen Wong. Influence. The ability to persuade, motivate, or connect with other people.

It's one of these skills that's hard to measure, but incredibly important in the world of work.

Steve Martin knows this because he's the faculty director of behavioral science at Columbia Business School.

And for years, he's been studying what makes people influential within organizations.

It's at the core of everything.

It's around us.

Without influence, nothing gets done and nothing changes.

And yet, Steve argues that we often misunderstand how influence works. So today on the show, Adrian's conversation with Steve, he distills his decades of research

to explain the unspoken rules of influence in the workplace.

This message comes from Wise, the app for doing things in other currencies.

Send, spend, or receive money internationally and always

get the real-time mid-market exchange rate with no hidden fees. Download the Wise app today or visit

wise.com, T's and C's apply. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Dignity

Memorial. When your celebration of life is prepaid today, your family is protected

tomorrow. Planning ahead is truly one of the best gifts you can give your family. For additional

information, visit DignityMemorial.com. This is Eric Glass. On This American Life, we specialize in

compelling stories from everyday life. I was like, wow, you literally just died and came back.

And the first thing you asked is, do you need any money?

Your life stories, really good ones, in your podcast feed, This American Life.

Just to set the table, what is influence?

I mean, that sounds like a basic question.

I think it's a good question, actually.

...