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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

How inequality and white identity politics feed each other

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 6 August 2020

⏱️ 76 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Conservative parties operating in modern democracies face a dilemma: How does a party that represents the interests of moneyed elites win mass support? The dilemma sharpens as inequality widens — the more the haves have, the more have-nots there are who want to tax them. In their new book, Let Them Eat Tweets: How the Right Rules in an Age of Extreme Inequality, political scientists Jacob Hacker and Paul Pierson argue that three paths are possible: Moderate on economics, activate social divisions, or undermine democracy itself. The Republican Party, they hold, has chosen a mix of two and three. “To advance an unpopular plutocratic agenda, Republicans have escalated white backlash — and, increasingly, undermined democracy,” they write. On some level, it’s obvious that the GOP is a coalition between wealthy donors who want tax cuts and regulatory favors, and downscale whites who fear demographic change and want Trump to build that wall. But how does that coalition work? What happens when one side gains too much power? If the donor class was somehow raptured out of politics, would the result be a Republican Party that trafficked less in social division, or more? And has the threat of strongman rule distracted us from the growing reality of minoritarian rule? In this conversation, we discuss how inequality has remade the Republican Party, the complex relationship between white identity politics and plutocratic economics, what to make of the growing crop of GOP leaders who want to abandon tax cuts for the rich and recenter the party around ethnonationalism, how much power Republican voters have over their party, and much more. Paul Pierson's book recommendations: Behind the Beautiful Forevers by Katherine Boo Evicted by Matthew Desmond The Social Limits to Growth by Fred Hirsch Jacob Hacker's book recommendations: Tocqueville's Discovery of America by Leo Damrosch The Buried Giant by Kazuo Ishiguro The Internationalists by Oona A. Hathaway and Scott J. Shapiro Please consider making a contribution to Vox to support this show: bit.ly/givepodcasts Your support will help us keep having ambitious conversations about big ideas. New to the show? Want to check out Ezra’s favorite episodes? Check out the Ezra Klein Show beginner’s guide (http://bit.ly/EKSbeginhere) Credits: Producer/Editor - Jeff Geld Researcher in chief - Roge Karma Want to contact the show? Reach out at ezrakleinshow@vox.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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1:04.0

When you look at what Republicans do when they come to office, since the mid 1990s, the first thing they do is aggressively pursue these policies that are designed to steer as many resources to the wealthy as possible.

1:19.0

And they do that into the hurricane wind of popular opposition.

1:25.0

Hello and welcome to Gazelclan Show on the Box Media Podcast Network. I'm back from vacation. I'm rested, tan, ready. I've got a great episode here today.

1:47.0

So I've been a big fan of Jacob Hacker and Paul Pearson because of course I'm the kind of person who's like, I'm a big fan of these two political scientists.

1:53.0

Jacob Hacker is at Yale, Paul Pearson is at Berkeley, and they've been a duo for two decades now writing really important books about the institutional structure of American politics, how social welfare policies work, how they entrench themselves.

2:09.0

But what recently what has happened to the Republican Party? Why does it act the way it does? And in particular, they begin with what should be from the perspective of political science, a conundrum.

2:18.0

How does the Republican Party survive consistently pursuing extraordinarily unpopular policies and in particular extraordinarily unpopular economic policies?

2:27.0

And they've been working on this question for a long time, but like everyone there re-evaluating parts of it in the Trump era.

2:34.0

But at the core of their explanation is inequality. And this is something that I wrestle with, not because I don't think inequality is a crucial and critical part of what is happening in American politics now.

2:43.0

But because the question of which part it is playing, whether it is polarizing things or depolarizing them, pushing their Republican Party to a breaking point or making it stronger by giving it so much money to work with, it's just hard.

2:56.0

The literature is contradictory, it's very hard to find the causal story. It's something that I will occasionally make a run at and then step back a little bit confused.

3:04.0

But they have been working on this very hard. And so the new book let them eat tweets, how the right rules in an age of extreme inequality is a pretty profound effort to answer this question.

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