Surely they know that if they actually get into a shooting war with America, they'll be obliterated, though.

Or do they not kidding?

I don't think they know that.

Okay.

I don't think they know that.

And I'm not sure that that's true.

Yeah. Hey, everyone, it's Andrew Claven with this week's interview with Mike Duran, Michael Duran, and we always like to bring Mike on when we are talking about the Middle East,

because he is the most realistic observer of the Middle East that I know, and that includes in or out of the government. And right now, as we know, the Middle East is a hotspot. We have got

a million ships off the coast of Iran. Things look like they're going badly, as Trump has said, that he will never allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon, which, of course, is the wisest thing he can possibly say.

But it may mean gunfire, and it may mean people getting killed.

And so this is a dangerous moment, a tense moment, and I wanted to bring someone on who knew what he was talking about because otherwise you'd have to listen to me.

Michael Duran is a senior fellow and director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East at the Hudson Institute.

He specializes in Middle East security issues and co-hosts the counterbalance podcast.

He served in the Bush administration as a senior advisor in the State Department

and a deputy assistant secretary of defense in the Pentagon.

Mike, I got to tell you, if you are the director of the Center for Peace and Security in the Middle East,

you're doing a terrible job because there is nothing.

So you've been writing some...

Can I address that slur?

Yeah, please.

Knock yourself out.

I did it as kind of a joke when I titled the center.

...