Imagine like a five-foot-by-four-foot map.

And this map shows you where different ideologies or different positions are located.

EAC and long-termism would be about an inch apart.

In contrast, like the AI ethics people, like Emily Bender and Timit Gebrough and so on,

they would be like three feet away.

So if you stand far enough from the map, EAC and long-termism

are in the exact same location. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us. I'm your host, Paris Marx, and this week my guest is Emil Torres.

Amil is a postdoctoral fellow at Case Western Reserve University and the author of Human Extinction,

a history of the science and ethics of annihilation.

Now, Emil has been on the show a couple times before and in the Elon Musk series,

where we talked about long-termism, effective altruism,

and these ideologies throughout the tech industry that justify, you know,

a lot of the actions of powerful and rich people,

but make it seem like they are moral and justified.

And so we have continued to see that expand over the past year. And Emil and Tim Nick Gebrou, who was on the show earlier this

year, have written about kind of the longer history of these ideologies, which they call

Tescriel, which is an abbreviation that we'll get to in the show, and more recently,

effective altruism, which is linked to this manifesto that Mark Andreessen wrote recently called

the Manifesto of Techno Optimism. And so I thought it was a good time to have Emil back on the show

to dig through all of this stuff, to try to understand kind of where the minds and the brains of these people in the tech industry are, and how they have been shaped or diluted by these fantasies, by these ideas that set themselves up as kind of the masters of history and of the future as the people who shape what humanity and what human society is going

to look like in the future. And that justify, you know, the actions that they take for their own

benefit, but act as though it's something in service of us all. And so this conversation goes in many

...