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From the vox media podcast network this is channels with peter kofka. That's me. I am also the chief from the Vox Media Podcast Network.

This is Channels with Peter Kafka.

That's me.

I'm also the chief correspondent of Business Insider.

Man, it is busy, right?

At least in the news business, it's been a real challenge for me to keep up,

and it is literally my job to keep up with the news.

I can't imagine what it's like for a normal person, i.e., perhaps you. And to get pretty meta about it, this is one of the challenges I have in this podcast, figuring out when we should be talking about what just happened, what's going to happen tomorrow, and when we want to pull back and talk about bigger ideas or ones that aren't exactly driven by the news. I don't really have a good answer, except that I'm constantly trying to figure it out. The good news is you folks seem to like both kinds of chat, so we're going to keep doing them. This week we have a conversation that tries to do both things at once. I'm talking with Michael Nathanson, the longtime media and tech analyst about what 2025 looks like. That involves a lot of sort of future

speculation about Trump, obviously, but also about the way consumers are changing their viewing

and, crucially, their spending habits that's independent of politics and regulation.

And in the course of our conversation, we talk about very recent events like meta's hard

pivot to accommodate Donald Trump. What are besters to think about

that? Talk about the demise of venue, the streaming sports network that never actually launched.

And there's lots more here. Michael is always worth listening to. So let's go do that now.

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