How do you gain “experience” in cyber without a job in cyber? [CISO Persepctives]

CyberWire Daily

N2K Networks, Inc.

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4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 1 May 2025

⏱️ 38 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

We're sharing a episode from another N2K show we thought you might like. It's the third episode of the new season of the show CISO Perspectives with Kim Jones. Enjoy! Show Notes: While the cybersecurity industry has expanded and grown in recent years, newcomers still struggle to gain relevant "experience" before officially beginning their cyber careers. In this episode of CISO Perspectives, host Kim Jones sits down with Kathleen Smith, the Chief Outreach Officer at clearedjobs.net and the co-host of Security Cleared Jobs: Who’s Hiring & How, to discuss this dilemma and what new entrants can do to account for these difficulties. Throughout the conversation, Kathleen and Kim will discuss the challenges associated with entry-level cyber positions, how to gain meaningful experience, and how the industry as a whole contributes to this problem. Want more CISO Perspectives?: Check out a companion ⁠blog post⁠ by our very own Ethan Cook, where he breaks down key insights, shares behind-the-scenes context, and highlights research that complements this episode. It’s the perfect follow-up if you’re curious about the cyber talent crunch and how we can reshape the ecosystem for future professionals. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	You're listening to the Cyberwire Network, powered by N2K.
0:09.3	Welcome to CSO Perspectives.
0:11.8	My name is Kim Jones, and I am thrilled to be your host for this season's journey.
0:16.6	Here we provide in-depth conversations and analysis of the complex issues and challenges,
0:21.6	technological and otherwise, that the average CSO faces.
0:25.6	We're bringing the deep conversations out of the conference, or more realistically the conference bar,
0:31.6	and tackling a single complex issue from every conceivable angle across a multi-episode arc. For our inaugural season, we're examining the challenges surrounding the cyber talent ecosystem.
0:43.3	We've been complaining about talent issues for the better part of a decade,
0:46.3	but our piecemeal solutions don't seem to be solving the problem.
1:01.0	Today we explore the question, how do you gain experience in cyber without a job in cyber? As a reminder, this is the last episode of the season we're making available to everyone.
1:07.0	Future C-So Perspectives episodes will be available only to CyberWire Pro subscribers.
1:12.9	We're sharing insights, conversations, and additional resources for every question we're exploring this season with our subscribers.
1:20.5	If you haven't done so already, please head on over to thecyberwire.com slash pro if you want to keep diving deep with us.
1:28.9	And now, on to the show. As a child, I remember watching an armed forces recruiting ad.
2:01.1	A young man walked out of an office building after being rejected for a position at some company.
2:06.9	When asked why he was turned down, he said, I didn't have any experience.
2:11.5	His friend responded with the obvious question.
2:14.8	How are you supposed to get experience when no one will give you a job?
2:18.3	Over half a century later, it's ironic that my profession is struggling with the same problem.
2:25.3	So stop me if you've heard this before.
2:28.3	Many professionals acknowledge that there are shortages within the talent ecosystem.
2:40.0	Some of the ways we address these shortages are to create multiple pathways for entry, such as boot camps, entry level certifications, training programs, associate and bachelor's degree programs, etc.
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