How Data Won the Premier League: Liverpool and the Rise of Modern Metrics | Part Two
It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast
The Overlap
4.9 • 667 Ratings
🗓️ 4 November 2025
⏱️ 53 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part on data in football, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their exploration into how data analytics transformed modern football. This episode delves into Liverpool's remarkable journey using data and how it helped them to win the Champions League in 2019 and the Premier League in 2020. We take a look at the story behind key figures like Ian Graham and Michael Edwards, exploring their early skepticism, the challenges they faced, and the groundbreaking decisions that followed. Discover how Liverpool's recruitment strategy evolved with data, featuring key transfers such as Sadio Mané, Mohamed Salah, and Andy Robertson. Discover the tensions and synergies between data-driven decisions and traditional football instincts that reshaped Liverpool and influenced their remarkable success under Jürgen Klopp.
00:44 The Role of Data in Football
02:00 Key Figures: Ian Graham and Michael Edwards
03:17 Michael Edwards' Journey
07:18 Early Skepticism and Challenges
12:39 Liverpool's Data Revolution
14:54 Transfer Market Strategies
18:35 Cultural Clashes and Successes
26:24 Ian Graham's Role in Liverpool's Data Revolution
27:42 The Transfer Committee's Struggles and Criticisms
30:23 Jurgen Klopp's Introduction to Data Analytics
35:49 The Impact of Data on Key Signings
42:12 The Evolution and Challenges of Data-Driven Decisions
44:43 The Future of Data in Football
51:47 Conclusion
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Michael had a document we prepared for Daniel leave before our first ever |
| 0:09.8 | meeting. But even before I said hello, he said, this data stuff is bullshit, isn't it? |
| 0:15.2 | At the end of the meeting, I went back to the car and called the boss, who owned no company, |
| 0:19.3 | decision technology, and said, |
| 0:21.4 | I don't think we'll be working with Spurs much longer. |
| 0:24.5 | Though that might put some people off, what Michael didn't realize was the only people more |
| 0:29.1 | aggressive than him, a physics professor. So I was used to being told I was an idiot. |
| 0:34.0 | Welcome to It Was What It Was, a football history podcast. I'm Jonathan Wilson and with Rob Draper. And that was Ian Graham on his historic first meeting with Michael Edwards in 2008. So in the last episode, we talked to Rory Smith, the author of Expected Goals. And we looked at some of the background of use of data in football, |
| 0:55.1 | people like Charles Reeb, Valerie Lobanovsky. And in this episode, Rob, we're going to be |
| 0:59.9 | talking about how Liverpool have used that and how it was the use of data that lay behind |
| 1:05.0 | and winning the Champions League in 2019 and then the Premier League in 2020. So is it worth just recapping who Ian Graham and Michael Edwards are? |
| 1:15.5 | Absolutely, because they're not starstrikers, they're not big managers, but we made a bold |
| 1:21.2 | claim in the previous episode, didn't we that, or rather I made it, but I think most people |
| 1:25.0 | concurred that when the history of Premier League comes to be written, these two will merit a chapter. |
| 1:31.6 | It's kind of like a John Lennon, Paul McCartney meeting this, I think, and I love first |
| 1:35.8 | meetings and what happened, because these two guys are going to go on and transform English |
| 1:41.7 | football, really, along with, we should say, big supporting role for, |
| 1:45.9 | or leading role maybe for Matthew Benham and Tony Bloom at Brentford and Brighton. |
| 1:51.0 | They also will be foremost figures. |
| 1:53.2 | But we're going to look at the Liverpool story because that's the one which really catches on |
| 1:57.8 | and I think changes everybody's mind on data. |
| 2:00.6 | So Ian, when he has his meeting with Michael Edwards, Ian is a 29-year-old, Cambridge University |
... |
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