How Culpable Is Trump, and How Dangerous is QAnon?

Matter of Opinion

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Ross Douthat, News, New York Times, Journalism

4.2 • 7.2K Ratings

🗓️ 18 September 2020

⏱️ 48 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

After Bob Woodward’s latest book revealed just how much President Trump knowingly misled the public about the coronavirus, how much blame does he bear for the nearly 200,000 American lives lost to the virus? Michelle and Ross discuss counterfactuals and disagree about culpability — both the president’s, and that of the alarmed but withholding members of his administration. Then, Opinion writer Charlie Warzel joins the podcast to debunk QAnon, for a conversation about the role the “collaborative fiction” plays in American’s psyche and politics. Is it a collective coping mechanism in difficult times? A remix on old anti-Semitic themes? And is it all Facebook’s fault? For background reading on this episode, visit nytimes.com/theargument.

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Michelle Goldberg.
0:02.0	I'm Ross Douthet, and this is the argument.
0:07.0	According to Bob Woodward, Donald Trump knowingly misled the public about the coronavirus
0:13.6	in February when it really mattered.
0:16.9	How much blame does the President bear for the 200,000 and counting American lives lost
0:22.9	to the virus?
0:24.2	Then, opinion writer at large Charlie Worsell joins us for a debate about the conspiracy
0:29.6	turn political movement, QAnon.
0:32.6	What do QAnoners believe and how seriously should we take them?
0:39.6	Last week, Bob Woodward's new book, Rage, quoted President Trump, describing COVID-19 as
0:45.1	airborne and deadly stuff in early February at a time when his public denial about the virus
0:51.3	still had weeks to run.
0:53.4	This revelation followed the previous week's fury over anonymous reports that Trump had
0:57.8	sneered at the American war dead during a World War I commemoration.
1:02.2	And there's good reason to think we'll have more of this as November nears, leaks and
1:05.9	revelations about the President that seemed to be saved up for the election home stretch.
1:10.8	Michelle, we'll get to the election in a minute, but I want to start with a counterfactual
1:14.7	debate.
1:15.8	What do you think would have happened if Trump had said publicly about COVID, what he was
1:19.4	saying to Woodward in February?
1:22.0	Well, I think you would have had much less of a Republican anti-masking movement.
1:28.4	You would have had much less of this sense that sort of defying social distancing regulations
	...

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