from WNYC studios. I'm Brian Lehrer. This is my daily politics podcast. It's Tuesday, May 7th.

A new article by Anne Applebaum in the Atlantic called The New Propaganda War has an old Bill Clinton quote

near the top. It's from March of 2000 when Clinton was president and giving a speech about why he

supported much more trade with China, despite China still being a cruel authoritarian regime.

Wasn't that long after the Tiananmen Square massacre. It was 11 years later, but it was still

very much on people's minds. One reason Clinton was four more opening to China was this shiny

new thing called the Internet. Now, there's no question China has been trying to crack down on the

internet. Good luck. Now, there's no question China has been trying to crack down on the Internet.

Good luck.

That's sort of like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Well, China has been nail jello to a lot of jello to a lot of walls ever since and also making a mockery of the serious premise behind Clinton's

laugh line this thought that came next. In the knowledge economy, economic innovation,

and political empowerment, whether anyone likes it or not, will inevitably go hand in hand.

That was March of 2000.

Where are we now?

And Applebaum is with us, staff writer for the Atlantic,

Pulitzer Prize-winning historian,

senior fellow at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies,

where she co-directs a program on disinformation and 21st century propaganda.

She has a forthcoming book called Autocracy Inc. The Dictators who want to Run the World. And that related Atlantic magazine cover

story now is called The New Propaganda War about how the autocrats in China, Russia, and elsewhere

are making common cause with MAGA Republicans to discredit

...