Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robertson. I'm the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs magazine. I am joined today by Daniel Knowles. He is the Midwest correspondent for our favorite magazine, The Economist. No, but don't hold that against him. He is also the author of the brand new book,

Carmageddon, how cars make life worse and what to do about it. Daniel Knowles,

welcome to current affairs. Thank you for having me on. It wouldn't have been the current affairs

podcast if I hadn't slipped in a tiny dig at the

economist, I'm afraid.

And, you know, I mean, we welcome rivalry.

We welcome, you know, friendly rivalries.

Averted competition.

Now, listen, here's how I want to start.

You've written a book.

Your book is a case against cars and car culture and car-based infrastructure.

I want to pretend that I am a person you run into at a gas station on a road trip across America,

and I'm driving one of these colossal child mashing trucks that have become so ubiquitous in this country in recent years.

You know, as we are at the gas station, we get talking, I ask you what you do for a living. You tell me you write for the economist. We get past that.

You tell me about this new book and you tell me it's against cars. And I think I say to you,

against cars? We're in a place where cars, you know, roads, the water that we swim in.

How do you begin in a country where the cars are so central to the culture, to how we get around?

Where do you begin the critique for people?

I mean, I have had a lot of these conversations.

I imagine so.

And actually, the great thing is, perhaps this is being in the Midwest, you know,

where people are very friendly and don't like to tell you you're wrong or an idiot.

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