How can we win the battle against antibiotic resistance? With Liam Shaw

Intelligence Squared

Arts, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary

4.2 • 1.1K Ratings

🗓️ 17 August 2025

⏱️ 43 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

One of the greatest medical breakthroughs of the twentieth century is set to become one of the biggest threats of the twenty-first - but what can be done to stem the rising tide of antibiotic resistance? In this episode, host Caroline Dodds Pennock speaks with Liam Shaw, biologist and author of Dangerous Miracle: A Natural History of Antibiotics – and How We Burned Through Them. From the miraculous discovery of penicillin to the industrial-scale production that changed healthcare and agriculture forever, Shaw takes us through the fascinating - and cautionary - story of these ‘fossil fuels of medicine.’ Together, they explore when and how the threat of resistance emerged, the roles of Big Pharma and industrial farming in accelerating the crisis, and the parallels with climate change in how we’ve squandered a finite resource. But as MIT researchers recently announced a breakthrough with AI designing antibiotics for gonorrhoea and MRSA superbugs, Shaw also outlines clear roadmaps for the future - including bold proposals for transforming the way we develop, patent and pay for antibiotics. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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1:40.9	I'm producer, Mia Serenti. We live in an age when antibiotics are taken for granted, and diseases that were once a death
1:49.0	sentence are now routinely cured.
1:52.0	But like fossil fuels, antibiotics are a finite resource which we've regarded as a cheap,
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