How Andrew Sullivan experienced God amidst fear and agony

The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.

America Media

Spirituality, Religion & Spirituality, Christianity

4.9 • 1.2K Ratings

🗓️ 28 April 2026

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

James Martin, S.J., speaks with Andrew Sullivan, the renowned political commentator and Catholic writer, about faith, identity and spiritual transformation in this deeply personal episode of “The Spiritual Life” podcast. Having struggled through the AIDS crisis of the 80s and 90s, Andrew opens up about the initial fear of gay people in the Catholic Church and the remarkable shift that he believes has taken place over the past few decades. Chapters 00:00 Who is Andrew Sullivan? 4:20 Homosexuality and the Catholic Church 11:14 State of the LGBTQ movement 15:35 How Pope Francis dispelled fear 21:38 God in the midst of agony 31:31 Andrew's turbulent Catholic life 41:04 Staying rooted spiritually 44:55 Reconciling personal experience in the church Links: Fr. Martin's spiritual advice column on this conversation: https://www.americamagazine.org/podcasts/2026/04/27/james-martin-andrew-sullivan-spiritual-life “The Weekly Dish”: https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/ Virtually Normal: An Argument About Homosexuality: https://www.amazon.ca/Virtually-Normal-Argument-about-Homosexuality/dp/0679746145 Interview: Andrew Sullivan on being openly gay and Catholic by Thomas H. Stahel: https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2022/11/10/vantage-point-america-andrew-sullivan-244119 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	Why does the term health care leave people feeling sick to their stomach? Maybe it's because instead
0:04.5	of being tied to health, the word seems to have a deeper connection to industries. At Catholic
0:09.5	Health Care, we're returning the word health care back to its former glory, because when
0:13.9	health care really cares, communities thrive, prevention is prioritized, and everyone has access to
0:19.9	care. Say it with me, health care.
0:22.6	Sounds better already.
0:24.6	Catholic Health Care, We Care, You Flourish.
0:28.6	Sponsored by the Catholic Health Association.
0:33.6	When you enter into a world of mortality,
0:38.3	suddenly everything becomes more real.
0:41.3	When you think you could die in a minute,
0:43.3	suddenly you are alive to living.
0:47.3	And so I could see more clearly all the signs that God was sending that I had previously been too busy to notice.
1:01.0	Welcome to the spiritual life. I'm Father Jim Martin. On this podcast, we reflect on how people
1:06.4	experience God in their prayer and in their daily lives. And I am joined by my wonderful producer,
1:12.2	Maggie Van Dorn. I always come up with the new adjective, but wonderful seems to fit. So
1:16.6	Maggie, good to be with you. Thank you, Jim. I do try to channel wonder. That's great.
1:22.6	I'm full of wonder. It's good for the spiritual life. That's right. So, Jim, who are we speaking with on this episode?
1:29.7	We are speaking with Andrew Sullivan, who I've long wanted to have on this podcast.
1:35.3	Can you tell us a little bit about Andrew Sullivan's background?
1:38.5	Absolutely.
1:39.3	So Andrew Sullivan is a political commentator, an essayist, known for his influential writing on politics,
	...

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