The other thing I'd say on that whole point though of, well, you know, I see some goodness in some of this rule of life and some of these other habits,

I think that's a wrong expectation.

The first thing I'd say to someone, make sure you're clear on the gospel, because if you're not clear on that, then I think you're

going to view Paul's exhortation to train yourself for godliness in a totally wrong and distorted

way.

There is perfect rest in Christ and his finished work.

Matthew Bingham is vice president of academic affairs

and associate professor of church history at Phoenix Seminary in Scottsdale, Arizona.

He's also the author of A Heart of Flame for God,

a reformed approach to spiritual formation from Crossway.

Matt, thanks for much for joining me today on the Crossway podcast.

Thank you.

Great to be here.

So in recent years, we've seen a noticeable rise in Christians talking about the importance of adopting some kind of rule of life, some kind of pattern for how we're living as Christians that would conform to Christ's life or other sources in church history.

And I want to talk about that, unpack that a little bit.

What's behind that desire?

And then what a distinctly reformed vision for spiritual formation might say to that.

But before we get into all of that, I wonder if you can just, for

those who are less familiar with this idea of a rule of life, briefly describe or define what

people mean when they talk about that. Yeah, it's a great question. And it is something that is, I think,

really popular right now. And I can understand why. You know, it's coming

out of, often people who talk about a rule of life are looking towards monastic movements. So we think

...