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Decoder with Nilay Patel

How AI safety took a backseat to military money

Decoder with Nilay Patel

Vox Media Podcast Network

Technology, Business

4.33.2K Ratings

🗓️ 25 September 2025

⏱️ 47 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This is Hayden Field, senior AI reporter at The Verge — and your Thursday episode guest host. I have another couple of shows for you while Nilay is out on parental leave, and we’re going to be spending more time diving into some of the unforeseen consequences of the generative AI boom. Today, I’m talking with Heidy Khlaaf, who is chief AI scientist at the AI Now Institute, about the tech industry’s shift toward AI military applications. I wanted to know what’s motivated this shift, and why Heidy thinks leading AI firms are being far too cavalier about deploying generative AI in high-risk scenarios. Links: OpenAI is softening its stance on military use | The Verge OpenAI awarded $200 million US defense contract | The Verge OpenAI is partnering with defense tech company Anduril | The Verge Anthropic launches new Claude service for military and intelligence use | The Verge Anthropic, Palantir, Amazon team up on defense AI | Axios Google scraps promise not to develop AI weapons | The Verge Microsoft employees occupy headquarters in protest of Israel contracts | The Verge Microsoft’s employee protests have reached a boiling point | The Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into.

0:04.0

That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 use the ServiceNow AI platform.

0:11.0

While other platforms duct-taped tools together, ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI,

0:19.0

connecting every corner of your business.

0:22.0

And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work

0:28.0

that matters most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people at ServiceNow.com.

0:36.2

Most AI coding tools generate sloppy code that doesn't understand your setup.

0:40.3

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0:42.3

Warp understands your machine, stack, and codebase.

0:46.3

It's built for the entire software lifecycle, from prompt to production.

0:50.3

With the powers of a terminal and the interactivity of an IDE, warp gives you a tight feedback loop with agents so you can prompt, review, edit, and ship production-ready code.

1:01.0

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1:07.0

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1:17.3

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...

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