Hello, I'm Alva, and I'm Stephen, and you're listening to the new Statesman podcast.

On today's episode we're joined by the Conservative MP Mark Harper to discuss his journey from

Chief Whip under David Cameron to rebel under Boris Johnson.

So we're in the parliamentary office of Mark Harper, former minister, Chief Whip turned

some say Chief Rebel to talk about his life experience, recent trajectory. I think we

get if we started with the recent difficulty of the government got it self into with the

standards though. Imagine for a moment you were still Chief Whip and that problem crossed

your desk. How would you have dealt with it differently? How do you deal with that situation

as Chief Whip?

Well, let me do this to you separately. On that specific issue, I think I'd have done

what I did actually, not being in the government. First thing I'd have done was go and get the

report and read it, and I plowed my way through the whole lot and to see what the facts

were. And frankly, reading the report, very clear, Owen had broken the rules on a number

of occasions. And frankly, I think the normal process should have been followed, which

is, you know, we don't make a huge deal about these things. There was a clear recommendation

for a sanction. I think the sanction was merited by what happened. The committee had taken

all the evidence, they'd listened to his views. So this idea that somehow there wasn't

an appeal. He'd had a full opportunity to set a case. And they had taken into account

the tragic circumstances of his wife having taken her life when they were thinking about

the sanction. And they had tempered punishment with some mercy, which I think is appropriate.

And I think, frankly, the motion should have just been put before the house. And normally

with these things, it goes through without the house dividing without us all having to vote

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