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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Hopeful pessimism

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.6 • 10.8K Ratings

🗓️ 14 July 2025

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

We live in a culture obsessed with hope. We are trained to believe that being hopeful is the key to success. Stay positive. The sun will come out tomorrow. Keep the faith. But maintaining that kind of blind hope is hard. When our hopes are dashed, we often feel defeated. In a world that’s filled with lots of dark clouds and very few silver linings, perhaps we need a better way to balance our hope and our pessimism. In today’s episode, Sean interviews philosopher Mara van der Lugt about her new book Hopeful Pessimism. The two talk about how to sustain hope when you’re feeling pessimistic, the pitfalls of blind hope, and what the climate movement can teach us about staying motivated when success is unlikely. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling)Guest: Mara van der Lugt, lecturer in philosophy at the University of St Andrews and author of Hopeful Pessimism. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Support for this show comes from ServiceNow, a company that helps people do more fulfilling work,

0:06.4

the work they actually want to do. You know what people don't want to do? Boring, busy work.

0:12.2

But ServiceNow says that with their AI agents built into the ServiceNow platform,

0:16.2

you can automate millions of repetitive tasks in every corner of a business,

0:21.1

IT, HR, customer service, and more.

0:25.0

And the company says that means your people can focus on the work that they want to do.

0:30.0

That's putting AI agents to work for people.

0:33.0

It's your turn.

0:33.5

You can get started at servic.com slash AI dash agents.

0:42.6

Support for this program comes from FM.

0:46.0

Established nearly two centuries ago, FM is a leading mutual insurance company

0:50.6

whose capital, scientific research capability and engineering expertise are solely dedicated

0:56.0

to property risk management and the resilience of its policyholder owners.

1:00.0

These owners who share the belief that the majority of property loss is preventable, work with

1:05.0

FM to better understand the hazards that can impact their business continuity,

1:10.0

to make cost-effective risk management decisions

1:12.5

combining property loss prevention with insurance protection. At FM, we see what others don't,

1:19.2

so we can help protect your business in ways others can't. Learn more at FM.com and browse site unseen.

1:27.1

Our new microsite with opinion, research and podcasts about

1:31.0

hidden risks facing your business. We live in a culture obsessed with hope. Train to believe that

1:41.7

keeping the faith is the key to sustaining success.

1:45.0

You've heard this before.

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