That's how we're going to solve climate change.

Given the time that we have, given the fact that we have one decade, not four or six or eight, individual action can't make the math work in time.

We're going to need systemic, political, and economic change, which means in turn that the most important thing an individual can do is be somewhat

less of an individual, join together with others in movements large enough to make those changes

on more fundamental level. I've tried occasionally to explain this to people by saying it's important to screw in a new lightbulb,

but it's way more important to screw in a new senator, a new piece of legislation.

These are the battles that we're fighting, and it's why we set up 350.org, which was the first iteration of a kind of global climate movement.

Today I got to interview one of my heroes, Bill McKimmon.

He is a professor at Middlebury College.

He wrote The End of Nature back in the late 1980s in his 20s.

And most recently, he has written the book Falter, which is actually about the end of civilization and what we might do about it.

He is also the founder of 350.org, which is a global organization dedicated to divestiture or the uninvesting from fossil fuel industries and really taking a stand for community-based grassroots

activism around environmental sustainability. So we cover a ton of topics ranging from the arc

of his career to the current state of things. Everything from Greta Toonberg to the notion of

the fossil fuel industries and where they were in the 1980s via now,

how he was mistaken about most of his career. He thought this was a lack of information. He thought that this was a dialogue, a debate, a discussion,

and in fact he thought it actually turns out to be a more entrenched challenge than that. And as much as anything else, just bearing

witness to a dedicated public intellectual, teacher, activist, and even athlete. The ID, we talked

about his endurance running, his cross-country skiing, his pursuit of flow states, and how

those activities have

helped ground him and have helped make him more able to fight the good fight for the long term.

So if you haven't come across Bill McKibbon, this is a great opportunity to jump into his

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