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Welcome to Holy Smoke, the Spectator's Religion podcast. I'm Damien Thompson.

Today is the 250th anniversary of the birth of Ludwig van Beethoven.

Not only one of the greatest composers who've ever lived, but a man of profound spiritual insights, whose works themselves are spiritual insights, and I believe,

a spiritual resource for anybody who comes to love them as I have all my life. I'm absolutely

delighted to be joined by Sir James McMillan, the not only distinguished but very exciting

Scottish composer, a committed Catholic,

but somebody who's profoundly interested in religious traditions generally and the relationship

between faith and music. And at the moment on Radio 4, he has a series called Faith in Music,

in which he looks at the complex lives and religious faith of Talis, Wagner, Elgar and Bernstein.

A very interesting quartet. Not what I would have expected. I mean, I've only heard the Vargner

episode and I'm so glad I did. Welcome, James. Great honor to have you on Holy Smoke.

Thank you. It's great to be with you.

The composers you've chosen for faith in music, I think, illustrate, with a small seat,

the Catholicity of your own religious interests.

I've just listened to the episode on Vargna.

I've always felt that Parciful is one of the most spiritual operas ever written one.

In fact, one of the most profoundly spiritual pieces of

music, although what its theological messages has always slightly confused me. Here's Wagner,

famously anti-Catholic, writing his longest single opera, at the heart of which lies a

sort of Eucharist, accompanied by transcendently beautiful music.

The next episode will be on Edward Algar, who was controversial during his life for being a Roman Catholic, as we were called.

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