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Hey, everybody.

This is Chris Malanfi, host of Hit Parade, Slate's podcast of Pop Chart History.

Welcome to The Bridge.

That's Abacab, by Genesis, their 1981 hit from the album of the same name.

As we told you in last month's hit parade about the history of Genesis, frontman Phil Collins named the track, spelled A-B-A- C, A, B, after the letter pattern that pop songwriters

commonly use to organize their songs. And that special part C, that's the bridge. And these

mini episodes bridge, our full-length monthly episodes, give us a chance to catch up with listeners,

and enjoy some hit parade trivia. This month, I'm fortunate to be joined by both a co-host and a guest. Let's bring in my co-host first. One more time, it's my colleague who helps me take it to the bridge, Slate Podcast senior producer, T.J. Raphael. Hey, T.J. Hey, Chris. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. Always a pleasure.

I just finished listening to the last full-length episode of Hit Parade on my way into the studio today.

And one thing that really stood out to me while I was listening was the point that you made about how

difficult it is for an artist who started in a group dynamic to really break

away and formulate their own successful career. And I think that's what makes the whole story

about Genesis and Phil Collins and Peter Gabriel so interesting in so many ways. Can you talk

about a few other artists? You mentioned, of course, Justin Timberlake, who broke away from InSink. And then you also mentioned Lionel Richie, who went on to have his own very successful career. Can you tell us about a couple performers that maybe stand out for you because they weren't able to break away? And I guess also, what makes that

transition successful for some and for others? Why can some artists do it? And what is that special

sauce that maybe somebody needs? I mean, it is kind of a special sauce. And it's hard to predict

sometimes. And I think there have been solo careers that have not worked out that you really could have

sworn would have worked out. And also the ones you mentioned who were successful, Justin Timberlake,

Lionel Richie, the four solo Beatles, particularly John Lennon and Paul McCartney, but George Harrison,

too, had an enormous solo career. They all look inevitable in retrospect. But the fact is, one little thing goes

wrong, or if the public just isn't able to change its perceptions about a performer, that's,

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