What's good, Joe? You are listening to Code Switch from NPR.

I'm Gene Demby, obviously. Obviously.

And you are not tripping. This is another episode of the podcast.

Two episodes in one week. It's a special bonus episode of Code Switch.

Why is it that hip-hop music and mass incarceration are so entangled in the United States?

That's a question that Sydney Madden and Rodney Carmichael or colleagues and play cousins at NPR music

set out to answer on their brand new podcast louder than a riot.

That show is all about race and music and criminal justice and a

Wow conspiracy theory full of twists and turns to boot. Of course, that is very much in

The universe of our jams. So we're gonna play episode one of louder than a riot in just a minute, but first

You want to introduce you to the host to Sydney to Rodney?

I sat down with them to ask them a few questions about how exactly it is they got into this

I remember we all first started working on this way way back in

Early 2019 which feels like like an eternity ago. So this is obviously been just stating for a long time

So what major interested in this intersection between hip-hop and mass incarceration?

I mean, I think you know

The music first of all made made me interested, you know the music the music made the connection, you know long before

Anyone else has but even hip-hop media has been making this connection going all the way back

You know back in the early 2000s source magazine was doing hip-hop behind bars issues and I think in terms of

Why now it just feels like?

We've heard so much about

Mass incarceration in this country and it being you know, this this really huge civil rights issue

...