On the new episode of the Larry Arn show, Hillsdale College President Larry Arn

sits down with theologian and CS Lewis scholar Michael Ward for a one-on-one

conversation. Isn't that too bad children's story ends tragically?

Well, it's a bold move. I agree to kill off literally every character

and destroy the world that you've just spent previous six books creating.

The amazing thing is that he manages to pull it off as well as he does.

Listen to this exclusive interview with Michael Ward right now, only available on the Larry Arne Show.

Find it on the Hillsdale College Podcast Network at podcast

at podcast.hillsdale.

EDU or wherever you get your audio and

subscribe to receive new episodes littered right to your device. That's

podcast dot hillsdale dot edu. dot E.DU.

Morning glory and evening grace America. I have called for a dirge to begin this hour.

This is the Hill's Dale Dialogue, but it's the one I have feared most over the two years that we've been doing them, all of them available at hue for Hilldale.com.

It is the Hillstale Dialogue on the Leviathan and Thomas Hobbs and the book haunts me still from 1978 and Harvey Mansfield treatment of it.

I think it may be the most single most difficult

text that is routinely handed to people. I don't know if people routinely read it.

But I know there's a famous paragraph in it which I shall begin the hour with.

He's talking about his famous state of nature and joining me in this conversation,

President Larry Arne of Hillsdale College, Dr. Thomas West on the faculty there.

They've both been frequent visitors to the Hilldale Hour.

That paragraph on the state of nature reads in such a condition there is no place for industry because the

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