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This is the political scene, a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about politics. It's Friday, October 21st. I'm Dorothy Wickenden, executive editor of The New Yorker. What would this down and dirty political year look like if it were a work of fiction? To get at this question, we need to start off with one of the country's great real-life political anti-heroes.

Here's a clip from one of David Frost's interviews with Richard Nixon in May 1977.

Frost asked him about his approval of illegal wiretapping, burglaries, and black bag jobs against anti-war groups and the Democratic National Committee,

and the subsequent move to impeach him.

He replied,

I don't know what was going on in some Republican, some Democratic circles,

as far as the so-called impeachment lobby was concerned.

However, I don't go with the idea that what brought me down was a coup, conspiracy, etc., etc., etc.

I brought myself down. I gave him a sword, and they stuck it in, and they twisted it with relish. And I guess if I had been in their position,

I'd have done the same thing. The political novelist Thomas Malon joins me to discuss how

fiction writers approach their protagonists and their demons. Hi, Tom. Thanks so much for joining me.

Thank you. You've written nine novels, I believe. Most of the works of historical fiction. This year, way back during the primaries, you and I were talking, and you proposed a piece for the magazine about what the 2016 election might look like in retrospect. The pieces will be out in a couple of days in the New Yorkers

politics issue. At the time, it was impossible to imagine how this campaign would unfold,

...