Hi, everybody. Radio Free Mormon here with Bill Real on Mormonism Live. It is Wednesday evening, August 13th, 2025. And at this point and time, I fully expected to be introducing to you Lauren Matthias from Hidden True Crime. And she'd come on the show. We talked about her career and her exploits.

Unfortunately, it looks like that's not going to happen.

One half hour ago, I received a phone call from Lauren's producer.

And without going into specifics, Lauren was called away on an emergency.

It certainly was not voluntary on her part in any way.

And the producer said that they would try and get back maybe half an hour into the show.

I said, look, you just take care of business. We'll be fine. And I think it's unlikely,

but I put it out there because if it happens, then it'll be

great. But I just want to let you know that. But that's the bad news. What's the good news, Bill?

Well, the good news is we've got lots of other stuff that I think we'll make for an interesting

conversation through the night. Maybe this is a little more Mormonism after dark sort of style

where people get a chance to call in and comment on some little stories or to share their

thoughts maybe on Sunstone, which just happened. But I think there's plenty of interesting things going on

that we'll have plenty of things to talk about to fill the time and to be of interest to listeners

and viewers. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And so in the

last half hour, I've sort of been walking around and picking up things that stand for certain

propositions, including this book. I got several books at Sunstone. This is a big book. It's

called The Rise of Mormonism. I think it's 1816 to 1844. It's by H. Michael Markort. You know him,

don't you, Bill? I know H. Michael Markort for sure. He is, he's quite a card and an incredible scholar.

And in fact, when I saw him, I was with Bill. We were down there at the Union Building at the University of Utah.

I think it was Friday.

And we saw Michael.

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