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Endless Thread

Hidden Levels Ep. 6: Segagaga

Endless Thread

WBUR

Reddit, Technology

4.12.7K Ratings

🗓️ 24 October 2025

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The final episode of Hidden Levels explores the story of SEGA developer Tez Okano and the bizarre, meta-game he created: Segagaga.

Okano joined SEGA in 1992, witnessing firsthand the company's tumultuous experience in the "console wars" against Nintendo and Sony.

In the mid-1990s, SEGA struggled to make hardware that kept up with its rivals. The SEGA CD, the 32X, and the Saturn were all commercial failures. For Okano and many developers at SEGA, the console wars were both an exciting time to be in the video game business but also an intense and stressful time. They worked long hours, slept at their desks, and faced relentless deadlines. And so Okano decided to turn the chaotic nature of his professional life into a low-budget, self-parodying game about making video games at SEGA.

In Segagaga, the player is a young developer tasked with saving SEGA's market share from the rival DOGMA Corporation (a stand-in for Sony/PlayStation). The gameplay is a mix of a role-playing game (RPG) and a management simulator, where you recruit demoralized, mutant-like SEGA employees by convincing them to join your team for the lowest salary possible.

The gameplay reflects the absurd reality of game development. Players can spend a long time creating an original, hit game or they can quickly make a bunch of trashy titles (or shovelware) that barely keeps the company afloat. Okano even told us that the insults characters used in "battles" were actual quotes he heard in the office.

The game was finished in 2001, just as the highly anticipated Sony PlayStation 2 was effectively dooming SEGA's Dreamcast. As game journalist Simon Parkin notes, Segagaga was released only two weeks before SEGA exited the console business entirely. This timing transformed the game from a self-parody into a memorial for a dying era, inviting players to literally defeat SEGA's failed consoles as bosses.

Though Okano’s bizarre proposal was initially met with laughter by executives, the game ultimately got made and, in a strange twist, benefited from the company's decision to stop making video game hardware. Even in the face of industry chaos, some creators simply can't help but pour their love and energy into making games.


Credits

This episode was produced by Jayson De Leon and edited by Meg Cramer. Mix by Martín Gonzalez. Fact-checking by Graham Hacia. Original music by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Jocelyne Allen helped translate and interpret our interview with Tez Okano (truly the best).

Special thanks to Lewis Cox and Tom Charnock over at The Dreamcast Junkyard. Their insight on SEGA, the Dreamcast, and Segagaga was extremely helpful in the making this story. Additional thanks to Adam Kuplowsky and 17 Bit’s Jake Kazdal.

Simon Parkin has a book about the history of the Dreamcast called Sega Dreamcast: Collected Works. It’s rich and beautiful and has even more details about Segagaga that we could not fit into this story.

Tez Okano would like to thank the small team that supported Segagaga. Especially Hisao Oguchi, Tadashi Takezaki, and Taku Sasahara.

Hidden Levels is a production of 99% Invisible and WBUR's Endless Thread. The Managing Producer for Hidden Levels is Chris Berube. The series was created by Ben Brock Johnson. Series theme by Swan Real and Paul Vaitkus. Series art by Aaron Nestor.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Support for Endless Thread comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink software for technical computing and model-based design.

0:09.1

MathWorks, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at mathworks.com.

0:16.4

Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken, a podcast from the Mayrotra Institute at

0:22.2

B.U. Questrum School of Business. When does self-regulation go too far? A recent episode looks at

0:28.7

high-stakes antitrust battles and more. Stick around until the end of this podcast for a preview

0:34.5

of a recent episode.

0:42.6

Roman Mars from 99% Invisible.

0:45.2

Ben Brock Johnson from Endless Thread.

0:46.3

Here we are.

0:48.1

Final boss of hidden levels.

0:49.1

Are you ready, Roman?

0:51.0

Do you have all your legendary items?

0:52.1

Do you have full life?

0:55.1

Did you save the game in case we lose against the final boss? That's an important consideration. Yes, I am so excited for this because I think this might

1:01.2

be the first final boss I've ever encountered. Like I've never reached the part of the video game

1:05.0

that you actually hit the final boss. So this is thrilling for me to be here at the very end.

1:10.0

All right. Well, get ready to have a huge sense of accomplishment for beating a final

1:14.2

boss that maybe means nothing to anyone except for you. That's a very video game feeling.

1:19.1

Let's talk about something we've been touching on through this series, but maybe never said

1:23.5

explicitly. Video games are art. How does that sit with you, Roman? It says very well with me.

1:30.3

I think video games are absolutely art. They have beautiful visions that bring worlds alive for people.

1:36.4

They teach people how to think. They change your perspective. Video games are absolutely art.

...

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