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secure. Welcome to the Edge of Sports podcast. I'm Dave Ziron. We have a very special show for you this week.

We are going to play an interview I did with teacher and author Jesse Higopian about the civil rights movement and the black athlete.

It's a fascinating discussion. Jesse peppers me with questions. He's got his own stories.

And it was all done and sponsored by the Zen Education Project. And people should look up their work. The Zen Education Project. They do an unbelievable series about the civil rights movement. And we did a session on sports and I want to share it with you. So let's go to the tape.

I just wanted to start with a reflection about sports and education as a teacher because I think on the one hand, sports saturate education, right? Like, they're often the

most visible part of any campus, any school. It's what everybody rallies around. But on the other

hand, it seems to me that sports are often completely absent from the classroom, right? They're not studied at all in the

K-12 curriculum. And I think it's often seen as not a serious arena of study, right? And they're

generally excluded from history class, from English language arts, from science. And I just remember, in 1995, one of the few times the Mariners ever made the

playoffs, there was a one game playoff. And I was in sixth period. And I was listening to the game

on one of those little trying to be slick ear devices, right, on the

radio. And when Luis Soho got that inside the park home run to win the game for us, I leapt up on

my desk. I was screaming and I got in trouble for that moment. But reflecting back, I just thought, you know, if we learned

about the physics of baseball in that class, they wouldn't have had to ask for my attention,

...