Herb Lin and Amy Zegart on “Bytes, Bombs, and Spies”
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 2 February 2019
⏱️ 55 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Last week, as part of the Hoover Institution’s “Security by the Book” series, Jack Goldsmith spoke with Herb Lin and Amy Zegart, co-directors of the Stanford Cyber Policy Program. Lin and Zegart edited a recently-published volume on offensive cyber operations entitled: “Bytes, Bombs, and Spies: The Strategic Dimensions of Offensive Cyber Operations.” In the book, leading cybersecurity scholars and practitioners dissect the technical, political, psychological, and legal ramifications of offensive cyber operations. Goldsmith, Lin, and Zegart discussed the book’s inception, its contents, and what role offensive cyber operations have played and continue to play in U.S. strategy.
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Transcript
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| 0:14.0 | That's patreon.com slash law fair. |
| 0:18.0 | Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, |
| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | I went to DOD and said, would you like an academy study on this? |
| 0:40.0 | Because we had the DOD itself had recently put out a legal analysis of this stuff in 1999. |
| 0:48.0 | And I thought that a study on this would be really interesting. |
| 0:51.0 | And I was very politely shown the door. |
| 0:54.0 | They said, go away. We have this all under control. |
| 0:58.0 | And we don't want any public attention to this at all. That was in 2000. |
| 1:02.0 | And so that, you can understand why that might peak up my interest in this. |
| 1:08.0 | And the fact that it's been classified is one part of the problem. |
| 1:13.0 | The other part of the problem is that people think that you need to know a lot about the technology |
| 1:18.0 | and that some magic secret sauce that gives you insight into the technology. |
| 1:23.0 | Whereas in fact, you need to know something. It's obviously. |
| 1:27.0 | But you don't need a degree in computer science to understand offensive operations in cyberspace. |
| 1:33.0 | I'm Michaela Fogel and this is the LawFair podcast, February 2, 2019. |
| 1:39.0 | Last week, as part of the Hoover Institution's Security by the Book Series, |
| 1:44.0 | Jack Goldsmith spoke with her, Lynn and Amy Zeigert, co-directors of the Stanford Cyber Policy program. |
| 1:51.0 | Lynn and Zeigert edited a recently published volume on offensive cyber operations, |
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