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I mean, I'm interested in this topic of male allyship because I think there's so much going on around this topic as I see it come up at conferences I see books being written about it how can men be involved in the effort to make workplaces more equitable.

And I feel like women need to have a say

and how those efforts are carried out so that they're most relevant for us and they

support us in the ways that we actually need support.

What we can take away from this is insight into how to make those well-intentioned efforts really work.

Yes, that's exactly it. Like if people are going to put effort into helping us and as you say

they're well-intentioned, how do we help shape them so they actually give us what we need

because that's the whole purpose.

You're listening to Women at Work from Harvard Business Review.

I'm Amy Gallo.

And I'm Amy Bernstein. This episode will be getting an update on what

men are doing or should be doing to support the women they work with and we'll talk

about our role in helping them help us.

First up, my conversation with Brad Johnson and David Smith.

Brad is a psychology professor at the United States Naval Academy.

Dave is a sociology professor at the United States Naval War

College. They wrote about how and why men should mentor women in their book

...