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In Our Time

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle (Archive Episode)

In Our Time

BBC

History

4.69.2K Ratings

🗓️ 14 August 2025

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Melvyn Bragg and guests discuss the German physicist who, at the age of 23 and while still a student, effectively created quantum mechanics for which he later won the Nobel Prize. Werner Heisenberg made this breakthrough in a paper in 1925 when, rather than starting with an idea of where atomic particles were at any one time, he worked backwards from what he observed of atoms and their particles and the light they emitted, doing away with the idea of their continuous orbit of the nucleus and replacing this with equations. This was momentous and from this flowed what’s known as his Uncertainty Principle, the idea that, for example, you can accurately measure the position of an atomic particle or its momentum, but not both. With Fay Dowker Professor of Theoretical Physics at Imperial College London Harry Cliff Research Fellow in Particle Physics at the University of Cambridge And Frank Close Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics and Fellow Emeritus at Exeter College at the University of Oxford Producer: Simon Tillotson Reading list: Philip Ball, Beyond Weird: Why Everything You Thought You Knew about Quantum Physics Is Different (Vintage, 2018) John Bell, ‘Against 'measurement'’ (Physics World, Vol 3, No 8, 1990) Mara Beller, Quantum Dialogue: The Making of a Revolution (University of Chicago Press, 2001) David C. Cassidy, Beyond Uncertainty: Heisenberg, Quantum Physics, And The Bomb (Bellevue Literary Press, 2010) Werner Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy (first published 1958; Penguin Classics, 2000) Carlo Rovelli, Helgoland: The Strange and Beautiful Story of Quantum Physics (Penguin, 2022) Spanning history, religion, culture, science and philosophy, In Our Time from BBC Radio 4 is essential listening for the intellectually curious. In each episode, host Melvyn Bragg and expert guests explore the characters, events and discoveries that have shaped our world.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.

0:04.9

In our times on its annual break, and we'll be back on BBC Radio 4 and BBC Sounds on the 18th of September.

0:12.5

Until then, each week, we're offering an episode chosen from our archive of over a thousand programmes, which I hope you'll enjoy.

0:19.3

Have a good summer.

0:21.2

Hello, at the age of 23, the German physics student, Werner Heisenberg, effectively

0:26.3

created quantum mechanics, for which he later won the Nobel Prize. He made this breakthrough

0:31.7

in a paper in 1925 when he worked backwards from what he observed of atoms and their particles

0:37.7

and did away with the idea of continuous orbit, replacing this with equations, as we'll hear,

0:43.6

this was momentous. And from this flowed what's known as his uncertainty principle.

0:48.8

The idea that, for example, you can accurately measure the position of an atomic particle or its momentum, but not

0:56.1

both.

0:57.1

When me to explain and discuss Heisenberg and his uncertainty principle are Fay Dowker, Professor

1:02.4

of Theoretical Physics at Imperial College London, Harry Cliff, Research Fellow in Particle

1:08.0

Physics at the University of Cambridge and Frank Close,

1:15.2

Professor Emeritus of Theoretical Physics and fellow emeritus at Exeterate College at the University of Oxford. Frank, what was there in his background that suggested he was going

1:20.7

to go in that direction? Well, he was born in 2001 in Bavaria and his father was a teacher of classics and Greek.

1:30.1

And I think that the young Werner was very interested in the ideas of Plato.

1:34.8

He read Plato while he was hiking in the Bavarian mountains.

1:39.9

And the reason I think that that was important for him is that later he made a remark,

1:44.7

which was that the smallest units of matter are not particles in an ordinary sense, but forms,

1:53.3

ideas only expressed in mathematical language.

1:56.2

So I think it was that classical background from his father that perhaps made him look that way.

...

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