Brad speaks with Stanford scholar of religion Dr. Kathryn Gin Lum about her new book Heathen. They discuss how White American Christians have used the label "heathen" in order to name those they deem not only different, but in need of saving. In this context, "saving" often meant the occupation of native lands, the overtaking of entire cultures, and the exclusion of those "unassimilable" to the American way of life. Race continues to operate as a heathen inheritance in the United States, animating Americans’ sense of being a world apart from an undifferentiated mass of needy, suffering peoples. Dr. Gin Lum reveals a key source of American exceptionalism and a prism through which Americans have defined themselves as a progressive and humanitarian nation even as supposed heathens have drawn on the same to counter this national myth. This is not a past phenomenon - it continues today in debates about reproductive rights and the rise of anti-Asian hate during the COVID pandemic. Heathen by Kathryn Gin Lum: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674976771 Subscribe for $5.99 a month to get bonus episodes, ad-free listening, access to the entire 500-episode archive, Discord access, and more: https://axismundi.supercast.com/ Order Brad's new book, Preparing for War: The Extremist History of White Christian Nationalism and What Comes Next: https://www.amazon.com/Preparing-War-Extremist-Christian-Nationalism/dp/1506482163 To Donate: https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/BradleyOnishi SWAJ Apparel is here! https://straight-white-american-jesus.creator-spring.com/listing/not-today-uncle-ron Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices