Heart and Soul: Black Madonnas
The Documentary Podcast
BBC
4.3 • 2.7K Ratings
🗓️ 13 December 2024
⏱️ 31 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Author and broadcaster Chine McDonald has never seen a black representation of the Virgin Mary. Black Madonnas are statues or paintings of the Virgin Mary and the Infant Jesus, where both figures are depicted with dark skin. They can be found both in Catholic and Orthodox countries. There are thought to be at least 450 of them in the world and there are more Vierges Noires documented in France than any other country in the world. Chine visits the Queen of Peace in the convent church of the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary in Paris, accompanied by expert guide Dr Christena Cleveland. She travels to Orleans to see the Black Madonna statue: Our Lady of Miracles in the Chapel Notre Dame des Miracles. And cultural historian and University of Oxford based author Prof Janina Ramirez explains current thinking about the origins and cultural significance of the Black Madonna.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | If I asked you to picture the Virgin Mary, what image would be conjured up in your mind. |
| 0:24.8 | I know who I'd see. I'd see a mother looking dotingly, lovingly, endlessly caringly at her baby. I'd see a halo. I'd see perfection. I'd see a |
| 0:34.0 | white woman with rosy pink cheeks and blue eyes and blonde hair. |
| 0:39.1 | And I'd see someone who doesn't look anything like me. |
| 0:47.1 | I'm Cheney MacDonald and I'm a black woman living in the UK. |
| 0:51.0 | I'm a writer and broadcaster and my day job is director of a think tank that explores |
| 0:56.6 | religion in society. I wrote a book recently called God is not a white man. I'm currently working |
| 1:03.3 | on a book that explores the divine images and how they relate to motherhood, and how that compares to us |
| 1:09.5 | as mere mortals. So I think a lot about divine images |
| 1:14.3 | and how they compare to us as human beings. And recently I discovered that there are such a thing |
| 1:20.7 | as black Madonna icons. So I've come to France to find out more about them. |
| 1:31.0 | Apparently there are more here than anywhere else in the world. |
| 1:37.2 | I have felt extraordinarily excited about this because there's a sense of the unknown |
| 1:40.1 | and there's a sense of adventure, |
| 1:43.5 | a sense of going on a pilgrimage in search of something |
| 1:46.6 | that is not easily accessible |
| 1:49.8 | and also nervous about how exactly I'm going to feel |
| 1:54.2 | when I'm standing in front of Black Madonna. |
| 1:58.2 | I've never seen one before. |
| 2:00.8 | The fear is complicated because I have spent most of my |
| 2:06.3 | life as a Christian with a certain perception of who God is and even now despite the kind of years |
| 2:13.6 | that I've done in trying to undo this I often imagine God as white and male. I often imagine |
... |
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