Thank you for listening to the Allender Center podcast.

I'm Dr. Dan Allender.

And I'm Rachel Clinton-Chen.

We're fiercely committed to providing hope and healing to a fragmented world.

And restoration for the heart.

Thank you for joining us.

Let's get this conversation started.

Thank you for joining us. Let's get this conversation started. Rachel, when we ended our last episode, you said a really important sentence that I think

will be very helpful to begin our conversation today.

I just was reflecting that I am aware we're talking about categories that get real blended and confusing. Are we talking about sexual abuse? Are we talking about spiritual abuse? Are we

talking about spiritually abusive sexual abuse? Are we talking about sexually abuse of spiritual abuse? And I think

in some ways we're aware that there is a weaving and a place where there's connection and a

place where there's kind of some parsing out of what is what. But what is so hard to do in this

regard is that in many ways, spiritual abuse can be an umbrella for so many forms of abuse.

It's a playground and a place and a pathway, a certain type of grooming, so to speak.

But as Dan said, we also can say all sexual abuse has some element of spiritual abuse, even if that's not the primary goal

and or, you know, what is playing out. So I just want to own, we're aware we are in some territory

that could feel a little confusing. But I think we both have experience of working with so many people

who would say, yes, the primary harm in my life I want to engage

is this experience of sexual abuse.

But I'm also aware it happened in a spiritual environment or with a spiritually authoritative person.

So not only does it impact my body, my own physical body, but it impacts my capacity to be a part of the larger body of Christ that I long to be a part of.

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