He Drank Blood to Stop a Massacre: FBI Undercover Unmasked

The Dr. Phil Podcast

Dr. Phil McGraw

Mental Health, Self-improvement, Society & Culture, Education, Health & Fitness

4.4 • 13.2K Ratings

🗓️ 30 July 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What does it take to stop a domestic terror plot from the inside? Former FBI undercover agent Scott Payne reveals how he infiltrated The Base, a neo-Nazi accelerationist group plotting mass murder. From drinking goat blood in a hate-fueled ritual to stopping a planned assassination, Scott shares raw, uncensored details about the psychological toll of undercover work—and what it taught him about radicalization in America.

Dr. Phil and Scott go beyond the headlines to talk about how hate spreads online, how children are recruited through gaming and dark web forums, and what families, law enforcement, and educators can do to intervene before it's too late. Based on Scott’s book Codename: Pale Horse, this is a wake-up call for parents, policymakers, and anyone who thinks this can’t happen in their town.

Listen in to learn:

How undercover agents spot and stop domestic terrorists
The new face of radicalization from Discord to extremist compounds
What parents need to know about online recruitment
Why emotional connection is a double-edged sword in deep cover work
Why silence is complicity and what you can do to fight hate

Thank you to our sponsor Preserve Gold: Visit: https://drphilgold.com/ Get a FREE precious metals guide that contains essential information on how to help protect your accounts. Text “DRPHIL” to 50505 to claim this exclusive offer from Preserve Gold today.

MORE INFO ON SCOTT: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Code-Name-Pale-Horse/Scott-Payne/9781668032909

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Transcript

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0:00.0	You're going into something that's dangerous.
0:02.5	You're by yourself.
0:03.3	I've gone into groups for five months and seen some of the most horrific hate.
0:07.4	It's not just playing a role.
0:08.9	You have to immerse yourself in what you're doing, right?
0:11.5	Yes.
0:12.6	It's not my normal thing to go sacrifice a goat and drink its blood, you know?
0:16.2	Definitely not my thing to be dropping racial slurs all day.
0:27.9	Yeah. my thing to be dropping racial slurs all day. Hey, welcome back to the Dr. Phil podcast.
0:30.7	Remember to click that subscribe button and follow and share this story today.
0:36.2	You're going to want to because we are diving into a world that most of us can hardly fathom.
0:42.3	It's one of deception, high stakes undercover operations, and a relentless fight against
0:48.3	violent extremism.
0:51.3	My guest is former FBI Special Agent Scott Payne. Now who is Scott Payne? Well, he is a man that spent
0:58.0	23 years walking on the razor's edge between survival and being exposed, infiltrating neo-Nazi
1:07.3	terror cells, violent biker gangs, drug cartels, and domestic extremist networks,
1:13.8	all while protecting his true identity.
1:17.1	Scott wasn't just undercover. He was also a SWAT operator, a lead, tactical and firearms
1:23.5	instructor, an active shooter expert, and a mentor to thousands of law enforcement officers across the country.
1:30.3	In his new book, Codename Pale Horse, Scott reveals the dangerous reality of living a double life.
1:38.3	The psychological toll, the high-risk missions, and the horrifying moments where he nearly lost everything.
1:46.5	From escaping execution at gunpoint
	...

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