Welcome to Current Affairs. My name is Nathan Robinson. I am the editor-in-chief of Current Affairs Magazine. My guest today is Professor John

McWhorter. He is the Associate Professor of English in Comparative Literature at Columbia

University, a regular contributor to the New York Times. He also hosts the Lexicon Valley

podcast, makes regular appearances on the Glenn Show with Glenn Lowry, a recent guest on this podcast.

And his new book is Woke Racism, How a New Religion Has Betrayed Black America, Available Now from

Portfolio Books. Professor, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you for having me.

Okay. So this book is extremely provocative, a very controversial

thesis. I want to start with this idea of religion, which is at the center of your analysis.

You argue that there is a certain style of anti-racist or woke politics that you say should not just be

understood as being like a religion, but is in fact a new religion. And so I want to, if you could,

to just explain for people what you mean by a religion so that people can understand what, why you're classifying it that way.

Well, the reason why is because I want people to understand that these are not people who you can try to break bread with by meeting halfway.

There's no point in saying,

can't you understand that there's a marketplace of ideas? This is not the kind of thinking

that they're engaging. And when it comes to these particular topics, instead, it's an idea

that there is an article of faith, which is that you are acknowledging that you understand

that racism exists,

that there are imbalances in the system that are based either in the past or the present on race.

That is what is important in this religion, that you acknowledge that you understand that to show that you're a good person.

It's kind of a variation on showing that you have faith in certain other religions.

And what that means is that you're committed to showing that you have faith in certain other religions. And what that means is that you're

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