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You're listening to the Scotland Outdoors podcast.

Thank you very much for downloading us.

Here we are walking along the path beside the Tay, just 12 minutes from Dundee.

It's a beautiful day, albeit a bit windy,

and I'll put a wee bit on with you that we see nobody. And that's kind of par for the course here. The great reason lots of people love coming to Scotland is because you don't meet people

when you're out in nature. You don't have to ask what that's all about.

And I think it is because for lots of urban Scots in particular,

they're confident in cities.

They know the way that cities work.

They know they're allowed to be there.

They know it's a habitus they're okay with.

The country is the domain of basically posh people and specialists.

Journalist and broadcaster Leslie Riddick there setting out a stall.

I'm Mark Stephen.

And here on BBC Radio Scotland over the next half hour,

we're going to continue our walk along a fairly

breezy day to delve into some of her ideas about how Scotland, as a nation, has become

...