Harris Had a Theory of Trump, and It Was Right

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 11 September 2024

⏱️ 47 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Tuesday night was the first — perhaps the only — debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. And it proved one of Harris’s stump speech lines right: Turns out she really does know Trump’s type. She had a theory of who Trump was and how he worked, and she used it to take control of the collision. But this was a substantive debate, too. The candidates clashed on abortion, health care, the economy, energy, immigration and more. And so we delve into the policy arguments to untangle what was really being said — and what wasn’t. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Jack McCordick. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. It is Wednesday, September 11th.
0:25.0	Last night was the first, maybe the only presidential debate between Vice President
0:31.3	Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump.
0:34.8	And I think to understand what happened at that debate, it's worth going back to a criticism of Trump,
0:41.4	you could maybe say an observation about Trump, that Harris and
0:45.1	other Democrats made repeatedly in their speeches at the Democratic National
0:48.6	Convention. Here's Harris. I will not cozy up to tyrants and dictators like Kim Jong-un,
0:56.3	who are rooting for Trump, who are rooting for Trump.
1:03.0	Because you know, they know, they know he is easy to manipulate with flattery and favors.
1:11.0	That isn't just an attack line that Democrats use on Donald Trump at the
1:16.4	high levels of power among the people in the Democratic Party who have governing
1:21.0	and particularly who have presidential experience.
1:25.0	This is what they believe about him.
1:27.2	That Donald Trump is easily manipulated, that he is distractible, he is undisciplined, he is egotistical. He is interested above all in one
1:37.2	topic and that topic is himself. It's why it was such a big theme in the speeches of the former presidents over that couple of days.
1:45.6	Here's Barack Obama from the DNC.
1:47.8	Here's a 78 year old billionaire who has not stopped whining about his problems since he rode down his
1:57.2	golden escalator nine years ago. It has been a constant stream of gripes and grievances that's actually been getting worse
2:08.0	now that he's afraid of losing the Commonwealth.
2:10.0	There's the childish nicknames, the crazy conspiracy theories, this weird obsession with crowd sizes. It just goes on and on and on.
2:38.0	Here's Bill Clinton from the DNC.
2:40.0	I mean, look, what does her opponent do with his voice he mostly talks about himself right so
	...

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