My pastor said this thing once, he was, like it wasn't directly to me, it was like in a room,

but I don't care. I think even the people on YouTube are speaking directly to me, so I'm going to pretend it was.

He said like, oh, like if God erased all war from the world today, we would be at

war again tomorrow because it's just human nature and even looking at things as you know like I used to have that like or oh obviously a utopia has no crime or no this or no war, no famine, and no poverty, and everyone is this.

And you can still have like a democratic version of capitalism where everyone is being lifted up at the same time.

You know, like I used to have all of these things and then I was just, but the older I get and

the more I like learn about history and war and the fact that we've always been at war. I don't know.

So I think though I do think what my utopia would be is a world where people get, where people aren't actively inflicting harm on another

human being and then where people get the chance to live out their body's lifespan.

I'm Kimberly Drew and span.

I'm Kimberly Drew and you're listening to your attention please, a Hulu podcast with I Heart Radio.

Tommy Adi Emmy has two best-selling fantasy novels under her belt with another one on the way.

Children of Blood and Bone came out in 2018 and its sequel Children of Virtue and Vengeance followed in 2019. And, as if that wasn't enough

Tommy's debut novel is already said to be turned into a film. I have been familiar with

Tommy Adiemy's work for some time now.

I have always admired the way that she presents herself,

especially in digital spaces,

but I haven't had the privilege yet of reading her books.

I want to start today's interview and episode with just that admission because I know that many of you may not have read her books yet, but maybe we can all read them together.

I'm so excited to break into Children of Blood and Bone.

Cannot, cannot, cannot wait. But I will say anecdotally I was recently on vacation

with a friend who was reading the book and it was almost as if that book was our third travel companion

...