Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Guy McPherson. I interview incredible people

who've dedicated their lives to helping those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank

you to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this show. Hello, everyone. This is

Christina Kinsavalo's guest host for the Trauma Therapist podcast. And I am so excited. I'm one of the

biggest fans of Dr. Schubner's work, Dr. Howard Schubner. And he is here with us today. Hello.

Thank you so much for being here. Kind, Christina. Thank you so much. You probably said that to all

the guests, but I didn't ever know.

I am.

I mean, to be fair, I am very excited for everyone I bring on, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't get to say that I'm their biggest, their biggest fan.

I've been following your work for quite a long time, even in my own, my own journey

with chronic pain and chronic illness.

And it's been extraordinarily helpful and supportive.

And now gets to be for the lovely folks, patients, clients I work with today.

Awesome. Good. Good. Well, let's talk.

Okay. Yes. So for, you know, something you mainly focus on is

chronic pain, right? And I think for the majority of people when they're feeling physical pain,

they're more likely or apt to go see a doctor, a surgeon, a physical therapist, an osteopath, so

and so forth. So their first idea isn't necessarily, hmm, what could this have to do with

emotionally, psychologically? What does my trauma have to do with this? So could you share with the audience what pain and mental

help have to do with each other? Yeah. I mean, you can't understand pain unless you understand

the brain. And I said that a million times. And I had no idea. I was a doctor for 18 years. I was a

medical school faculty. I was a full professor. I had no idea that the brain is what creates

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