I would say for podcasts, there's kind of two separate categories.

There are many categories, but you can mainly divide it into two, which is a guest-centric podcast

and a host-centric podcast.

So you have podcasts like Bad Friends that has like Bobby Lee on it or whatever.

And those will do well every single episode because people tune in for the host.

And you have guest-centric podcasts like Diabas CEO, Iced Coffee Hour, Chris Williamson, etc., where people mainly tune in for the host. And you have guest-centric podcasts like Diary of a CEO, Iced Coffee Hour, Chris

Williamson, et cetera, where people mainly tune in for the guest, or at least the interaction

between the guest and the host. Yeah, the host isn't totally just nobody cares about the host.

No, of course. Yeah, like people will care about the host, but people mostly want to either

see the host interacting with the guest or they're a fan

of the guest. And so we're more of a guest-centric podcast. So yeah, it does matter who we have on

the show. Yeah. I mean, is that your job? Because I don't see Graham just doing guest outreach.

No, I mean, we have a lot of different ways that we reach out to these people. We have a booking agent that we pay a fee.

We've never paid someone to come on the ice coffee hour, and we've never been paid to have a guest on the show.

But we do have someone who's a booking agent that kind of reaches out to the booking agent of other people that are looking for media.

And we will pay her like a small fee if she is able to find us someone or contact the booking agent of a guest

for the show. Got it. Got it. Has that led to a lot of these big people or just more medium-sized

people? Yeah, sure. I mean, people we've got through the booking agent. We got Bobby Lee through the

booking agent. We got Andrew Callahan from Channel 5 from the booking agent trying to think off the top of my head a lot of the massive people we've had on the show like Jordan Peterson

Ben Shapiro PBD like we're more kind of in that

ecosystem and so they usually have mutuals yeah we we're somewhat well established I feel like and we have mutuals that we could just reach out through

got it okay so one thing that's been interesting, too, about your pod is, um, you guys are

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