He's not up there in a class with Donald Trump for distrust of the press, but Grover Cleveland

really did not have friendly relations with a lot of the media. He rose so rapidly. He was elected

mayor of Buffalo in 1881, governor of New York in 1882, and president of the United States in

1884. I mean, this guy in three years went from mayor of Buffalo to president, and he really

wasn't equipped to deal with all the attention that came his way. And in the first presidential

race in 1884, which he won, it came out that he had fathered an illegitimate child. And some of

the more salacious newspapers printed very prominent stories about this. And this really turned Grover

off onto the media in general. He had a basic distrust of reporters after that.

That's reporter and biographer Matthew Altio. He's the author of The President is a Sick Man.

And this episode is about truth and lies. And one of president can use either of those two

to his advantage. It's also an episode about a secret cancer surgery at sea. I'm Lillian

cunning him with the Washington Post. And this is the halfway point. We've reached the 22nd

episode of presidential.

Grover Cleveland for Steven Grover Cleveland, as he was actually named, is our 22nd and our 24th

president, which messes up the numbering system a lot. And he's the only one to do so, the only

president who has served two non-consecutive terms in the White House. He is also the last American

president for whom there's no voice recording. So we're going to have a little fun with that and

celebrate the end of a presidential era with a special guest. Grover Cleveland. Or more specifically.

Roman Mars playing Grover Cleveland. Roman Mars is the host of the awesome podcast 99% invisible.

And you'll hear him a few times throughout the episode reading letters, giving speeches.

So who is this guy? Cleveland was born in 1837 in Coldzwald, New Jersey. He was a Democrat.

And he was president from 1885 to 1889. Then Benjamin Harrison comes in for four years and then

...